Dusty - Silicon Snow

Catanich returns to the thrilling historical fiction he has so brilliantly made his own. This is the first of seven side stories from the infamous Gopal affair told as a chillingly dark, hard-edged series of novels of theft, conspiracy and espionage.

Dusty - Silicon Snow

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Dusty - Silicon Snow


Pacific Ocean - NE of Santa Catalina Island
Twenty Six Miles West Of Los Angeles, CA USA


There was less than 10 feet to go on this stormy night when smoke started spewing from the winch and then the damn thing just stopped. The lights shining down on the two people from the helicopter created two dangling silhouettes that started spinning in the direction of the rotors.

Minute after minute, they hung there until a rope or cable was tossed to them from within the helicopter. As they secured the line to the basket, there was this slow motion release of the cable sending the basket swinging back and forth under the helicopter.

However, forty feet below, it was the inflatable raft tossed out next that said everything to me. It seemed I was going for a longer swim this evening.

Within seconds of the call, HH-3F 2117 (Air Sea Rescue 2) was dispatched to back up HH-3F 1432 (Air Sea Rescue 1), but they were still 24 minutes out and in this storm, it would even be longer.

My mother always said when things were bad "Do something that was fun, outrageous, and new. It will lead to adventure and who knows, maybe a new friend or two."

Well after sitting alone in this raft for 5 minutes, the only thing that was happening was that I was now getting extremely seasick going up and down in the 12-foot rolling swells. And this wasn't even talking about the windblown waves on top of the rolling waves that were trying to punch my lights out. Add to this the violent shivers that come with hypothermia. Well, I finally had enough and got back into the water. At least there, when I barfed the next time, the next wave would wash my face off for me.

Then the wind picked up. That brought on steeper swells and more white water that required me to kick my legs to stay above them. Then those damn troughs, you know as you come down the backside of a swell and hit the bottom. It always seemed to want to suck you under.

Finally, as sick as this may sound, the twelve year old in me came out. The next one I tried to body surf. It took four tries before I caught one and yea, it beat the living poop out of me. It also seemed that my pants were causing a heavy drag, so off they went. Finally, I got one. It was only a 3 to 7 second ride but when I tell the story later tonight, I bet I could get it up into the mile range after a series of strong drinks.

However, for now, I was doing something that 11-year-old Bobby and 12-year-old Michael always dreamed about on those winter nights in South Laguna when the 20-foot storm surf hit Aliso beach and we just sat there watching in awe.




One thing about HH-3F 2117, you could see their light approaching before you could hear them over the rush of the 30-knot wind and the churning of the 12-foot storm waves. Then as the HH-3F helicopter came into view, they finally could see me as well.

"What the hell..." the pilot said.

"Good God, I got to get a picture of this..."

"Chief, is he really body surfing?"

"Yes sir. He seems to be having fun".

So rescue swimmer Petty Officer Jason Madison jumped out of the helicopter onto the crest of a 14 some-odd-foot swell going by and swam over to me. As he grabbed me, he said "Sir, we could come back later for you if you like".

Since I really didn't respond correctly, he said "Well then Sir, we must go for now. My orders are to get you to safety".

Yea for me, I missed my E-ticket ride up to the waiting helicopter. The violent shaking had now stopped and with that came the quite warm calm before sleep. Hypothermia was taking its toll.




Although Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) Special Agent, James Gregson had been at the USCG Air Station Los Angeles from the start, he yelled out "Hey, how Aguirre" as DIA Agent In-Charge, Nick Petropolis pulled up in the jeep.

"Fine, he was hit in the leg but he will keep it in tacked" Petropolis informed him. "That new FBI vest stopped 3 other rounds and it appears that he only has fractured ribs and bruising".

"What about Jen" Commander Charles Turner, USNR inquired as he got out of his car and walked up?

"She's in surgery now. She will make it. That damn Kevlar of hers stopped two of the three shots. She said it was Luna for sure. Any word on him yet?"

"No, but that's in the hands of the FBI now and they have sealed off Catalina Island. It seems that the Judy Lynn finally ran out of gas and he had to swim to the island".

"What about Jerry? Any word yet?"

"Unknown? It's very serious and doesn't look good. He might lose the leg".

"Shit." Turner said and then asked "What about Contie"

"Last word he's airborne. Condition is still unknown" Petropolis answered.

As more and more information came in as to what had happened that late fall afternoon off the coast of So California, HH-3F 2117 landed where the awaiting medical staff took over. Gregson grabbed the gurney and helped load it.

"Shit, he's [email protected]#ing blue," Gregson said with astonishment.

As they all looked on in silence, Petropolis finally had to ask "Hey Doc... Will he be ok?"

As the Navy Doctor got out of the ambulance and closed the door, he said "No".

Finally, everyone knew what the answer was as the ambulance left without the flashing lights on.

As word spread of the failed rescue, few noticed the ambulance turn the wrong direction for the hospital. Just before it hit the freeway, it stopped and a dark van pulled alongside.

As Turner got out and opened the ambulance door, he said, "Bob, come with me now".

"Hey, would you at least give me a [email protected]#ing towel? I'm freezing my ass off".

"Shut up! You are supposed to be dead. Now hurry up and get in the [email protected]#ing van! We have to get out of here. There's a lot of cleaning up to do."

"Did you get my gear out" I asked as I got out shaking? Then another dark sedan pulled in behind us.

"No, we haven't yet. Another team will do that when the dust settles. But you're finished with this for now".

"Where's Stephanie?"

"She's in the wind from what I was told".

"And Rollo?"

"He's dead. It seems right now that he shot one and at first glance, it's believed that two cops shot him. However we can't locate the cops, so we're still looking into this".

"What about my friend Kazakov?"

"He just flew out on his diplomatic passport heading for Mexico City. It's rumored that he has been recalled". Turner said, "Now Bob, you need to go with them and don't play with them. Tell them everything. I'll see you as soon as I can get there".

As the van door was opened for me, I got the "after you" from a dark blue suited Fed who handed me a towel. I guess he didn't want me to get anything wet. The ride was short, and as I walked into this Navy looking building, a very pretty nurse stuck a thermometer in my mouth and a needle in my arm.

I tried to clown around, but it became very hard for me to move my legs or even bend over but one good thing, that damn shot finally made the shivering settle down.

It was funny to look at me. I hadn't been this blue since we were kids and swam in Helen's pool all day during winter. It always freaked out my mom to have a blue boy. My dad would say "Yep, he's going into the Navy, he's blue enough already".

Then came the doctor who handed me a blanket and said, "Ok... touch your nose". I missed it by three inches. I kept looking at my blue hands as I turned them around and around. This brought on the giggles and that hurt as well.

Then two orderlies steered me to this room... ok, I kept stumbling so they finally had to carry me. It seemed that my legs had now stopped working. Then I just closed my eyes.

The doctor said, "It's severe hypothermia and has all the signs... looks like stage 3 to me but for the time he was in the water, it should have been much worse".

"Well, they say he was swimming heavily when he was picked up" the head nurse said.

"Well then that must have bought him some time".

As the nurse finished her readings, she said, "Yea, his internal temperature is up to 88.7, pulse 27 and very shallow".

"Ok. Get the hot water bottles going, both armpits and groin. Bring his temperature up slowly. I don't want him to go into cardiac arrest after all this."

As I went in and out of sleep, I only remember getting warmer and dreamed of those So California summer days when we would cover our self's in the hot beach sand to get warm again after being out in the ocean all day.

Finally, I started talking again with my non-medical handlers. They wanted to talk and so I tried. For the most part, they didn't get too pissed off at me, but then there were the times that they got the "ask Turner". Yea, I knew they had a job to do, but I just wanted to sit in a hot tub but the doctors wouldn't allow it. Getting the heat back into me too fast would do more damage than good they kept saying. Finally, they gave me some clothes.

Of course, I was still shaking when my nurse that said this new shot she hit me with would stop the shakes somewhat and relieve any pain. It worked as I quickly went back into my dream state. It was sometime later; my handler took me for a car ride, which was ok with me because they finally let me fall asleep.




The building was a six-story glass building and as I woke up, Turner and Gregson greeted me as they walked into the room. They said Petropolis had retrieved the Judy Lynn adrift, 6 miles southeast of the island and she was now undergoing repairs. Apparently, Luna did run out of gas and it is now assumed that he swam the rest of the way to the island. There it seemed he ditched the authorities and now was in the wind.

I should have said something sooner when it didn't sound right, but it didn't register. As I walked on, it finally registered. "Hey Turner, Luna wouldn't have swum the 6 miles against the current, he would have gone the 20 miles with the current. He will land somewhere on the mainland not the island."

Well this got everyone running to their phones.

The bullpen office area we walked into was on the fourth floor and I only recognized one of the men, a senior FBI officer out of FBI-Wilshire (LA office) but everyone else was unknown.

And then came round after round of questioning from different members of the FBI/DIA team. Their questions were to set up the scope of the operation. I really hoped Turner kept better notes than I did because my mind had blanks in it now. Next came the detail questions again and then again but in different forms. Finally, they asked the most important question, "Are you hungry?"

Well, the food wasn't good but at least it was hot. As they left, I got up out of the chair and walked over to the door to see if I was locked in, I wasn't. However, after a couple of minutes, I just sat down on the floor in the corner and fell back asleep.

Sometime in the middle of the day, I found a blanket over me, and I was still shivering. As I started to get up, I hurt everywhere and now the black & blue marks had started to appear. I tried the closed door again to see if it was locked but it opened into a hallway with people walking around.

Turner walked up, and said "Bob, they said you finally decided to wake up. Come with me, I want you to read something before you begin your debriefings. Oh, the bathrooms are down this hall to the right. Here, it's hot coffee".

"Thanks. What hearing" I asked?

"It's standard procedure after an operation like this" and then he handed me a stack of photos.

"What's this?"

"The top one is a photo enlargement of one of your shots. That's Kazakov in the car with the rifle. The arm out of the van here was Luna's. It seems Kazakov shot down that crew for some reason. We're looking into this now. However, the crew wasn't KGB after all; it appears to be a drug related hit".

As I put the photo on the bottom of the stack, I asked, "What's this? Oh, shit... Thanks, you just blew my credibility" I said with total embarrassment. "Can I have this one?"

"Yea, I talked with Coast Guard Command about it. They would like to use it for a recruiting poster. Something about ‘A Great Night For A Swim'."

The photo was me going right on the face of what looked like an 8 to 10 foot swell with my right arm straight out and my bare ass leaving a wake on the face of the swell.

"You know sir, I can explain this," I said trying to explain it.

"Yea I bet. Well Saturday night you can, I'm barbequing but for now you need to be truthful with these Agents. Oh, then get some rest. You will still have many important people to talk to and you'll need your sleep. Oh, just a heads up, James Slocum died at sea so you will need to play dead for now. And Bob that means invisible! Understand!"

"Yes sir".

"No! Listen to me! I really mean it. What you did should piss off almost everyone involved and I don't want anyone to come after you until I can clean up this operation. Invisible means don't do anything until I tell you that you can. Period! Absolutely no exceptions"!

"Sir, yes sir".




S. Hrg. 112-481






H.R. 4738, H.R. 4749 H.R. 4880, H.R. 5205,
H.R. 5488, and H.R. 5750


FEBRUARY 8, 9, 10, 11, APRIL 24, JULY 11, SEPTEMBER 22 AND 23, 1983

Serial No. 97, PART III OF VIII
Printed for the use of the Committee on Intelligence


15-168 O WASHINGTON: 1983 Dorthea Peterson, Chief Clerk




The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m, at the NDIC, Bolling, Washington, D.C, Hon. Barry Goldwater (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Present: Senators Inouye and Byrd.

DOD present: Robert B. Costello, Under Secretary of Defense; Lt. General Daniel O. Graham, Army, Director of Defense Intelligence Agency

Staff present: Bruce S. Boggs, chief counsel; Timothy Madison, professional staff member; and Thomas E. Behmane, associate counsel.


Mr. GOLDWATER. The hearing will come to order.

Mr. GOLDWATER. This is a continuation of a closed door hearing providing the Intelligence Community with an opportunity to present to the nation its views of the threats and challenges we face, and for the Committee to ask questions of our intelligence leaders. Today is also an opportunity to take stock of what has transpired in the last year and what we can expect for 1983. Again, before we start, I want to congratulate the leaders of the Intelligence Community before us today, and the tens of thousands of civilian and military intelligence professionals they represent. Through their efforts, 1981, 1982, and the start of 1983 has given us numerous intelligence successes. With that, call in Mr. Contie.



Mr. GOLDWATER. "Ok. Let's get started. Mr. Contie, will you come in please and join us? Stand to be sworn in?"

Mr. CONTIE. "Do I put my hand on the book?"

Mr. GOLDWATER. "It is not necessary at this time. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?"

Mr. CONTIE. "I do."

Mr. GOLDWATER. "Mr. Contie, will you state your name for the record?"

Mr. CONTIE. "Robert James Contie."

Mr. GOLDWATER. "Now, where were you born?"

Mr. CONTIE. "Chicago, Illinois."

Mr. GOLDWATER. "If it is not too personal, how old are you now?"

Mr. CONTIE. "37; I was born in 1946".

Mr. GOLDWATER. "Is Chicago still your home?"

Mr. CONTIE. "No, sir, currently Laguna Beach is my home. Ah... that's South Laguna. Ah... but then the operation's house and then the apartment. Ah... sir, I really don't know any longer."

Mr. GOLDWATER. "Understand, so how long have you been residing in South Laguna Beach in California? As in collecting your mail."

Mr. CONTIE. "I would say with any regularity for five years. Since what May, 1979 but I have been going in and out of Laguna Beach for the last twenty-five".

Mr. GOLDWATER. "I assume you travel on business then?"

Mr. CONTIE. "No sir. I moved to Campbell CA for business and moved back to Laguna Beach in 1979 because of the divorce".

Mr. GOLDWATER. "From Laguna Beach to Campbell and back"?

Mr. CONTIE. "Yes sir. That's correct but I was married at the time with an apartment in Santa Ana".

Mr. GOLDWATER. "You have a family?"

Mr. CONTIE. "Yes, sir, I do".

Mr. GOLDWATER. "You are now a single man?"

Mr. CONTIE. "Yes sir, divorced".

Mr. GOLDWATER. "Have you done college work at any time?"

Mr. CONTIE. "I did two years at Santa Ana in the late 60's and I finished my college at University of California at Irving, and graduated in 1975".

Mr. GOLDWATER. "You hold a degree?"

Mr. CONTIE. "Yes, I do".

Mr. GOLDWATER. "Other than this incident, have you had some kind of occupation or profession?"

Mr. CONTIE. "Yes sir. I have been in the computer and semiconductor fields. Of course, all forms of job duties and assignments."

Mr. GOLDWATER. "Are you attached to the faculty of any school or any university?"

Mr. CONTIE. "No, sir, I am not".

Mr. GOLDWATER. "Have you ever worked for the government of the United States?"

Mr. CONTIE. "No, sir, not so far as I know, unless you would consider--I don't think one would consider a DOD project, ah or maybe this incident..."

Mr. GOLDWATER. "Understand. Do you have a passport?"

Mr. CONTIE. "Yes sir? Ah... under my real name. I also did get one assigned to me under James Slocum."

Mr. GOLDWATER. "Ok, we'll get to that... Now, with respect to your travels, have you traveled recently in the last ten or fifteen years?"

Mr. CONTIE. "In the country"?

Mr. GOLDWATER. "Outside".

Mr. CONTIE. "Yes sir. Mexico and Canada. And then Western Europe on the Harper operation".

Mr. BYRD. "And you haven't been to any Eastern Block or any country in the Pacific Rim"?

Mr. CONTIE. "That's correct sir".

Mr. GOLDWATER. "Your chief reputation lies in the fact that you were a semiconductor engineering draftsman. Would that be a correct statement?"

Mr. CONTIE. "I think in most people's minds that would be correct, although I have done many other kinds of things, yes, semiconductor tooling, circuit design, and software programming as well".

Mr. GOLDWATER. "This will be a direct question, of course, but first I think I should explain to you the purpose of these questions, because I believe you are entitled to know".

Mr. CONTIE. "I would appreciate it, sir".

Mr. GOLDWATER. "You see, last year Congress appropriated $486,000,000 against an original request of $1,160,000,000 for the purpose of retooling the military with semiconductor technology. I think you get the general idea of what I mean our weapon systems. In that $486,000,000, about $221,000,000 was allocated to the VISIC program. Some was allocated to the retooling many of the DOD vendors. Most of these funds were used".

Mr. CONTIE. "I am sorry, I did not understand that".

Mr. GOLDWATER. "VISIC and the retooling DOD vendors, did you get that?"

Mr. CONTIE. "Yes, I did".

Mr. GOLDWATER. "And then some funds were used to purchase these semiconductor chips to equip these military systems".

Mr. CONTIE. "Could I ask you sir, whose chips are in the discussion today?"

Mr. GOLDWATER. "They're here on this list, and I think we will probably refer to a number of them".

Mr. CONTIE. "Thank you. I see, because I could not quite know otherwise".

Mr. BYRD. "We will refer you from time to time to specific ones. Let me ask you this, have you ever been a Communist?"

Mr. CONTIE. "What? No, sir, I am not. Ah. I presume by that you mean a Communist party member, do you not?"

Mr. BYRD. "I mean a Communist".

Mr. CONTIE. "I would have to know what you mean by your definition of a communist or communism".

Mr. BYRD. "Have you ever been a believer in communism?"

Mr. CONTIE. "No sir. I have never been a believer in communism or a Communist party member".

Mr. BYRD. "Have you ever been a believer in socialism?"

Mr. CONTIE. "No sir. My feeling, sir, is that I am socially left, fiscally right and when one has to as a last resort, a military hawk. I have no clue on how this equates to communism".

Mr. BYRD. "Are you not being a little modest?"

Mr. CONTIE. "No sir".

Mr. BYRD. "You mean to say you have no familiarity with communism?"

Mr. CONTIE. "No sir. I would simply say that I do not have knowledge or familiarity with it. I have not read any books on it. I have not read beyond what the American newspaper's descriptions were or discussion in history classes. Bluntly put sir, I have no interest in political topics like that".

Mr. BYRD. "Let us see if we can get an answer to this: Have you ever believed in communism?"

Mr. CONTIE. "No sir. Anyway, I would have to know what you mean by communism to answer that truthfully, and honestly, and according to the oath. Let me state, that's been asked and answered! Sir."

Mr. BYRD. "Interpret it as broadly as you want. Have you ever believed that there is a form of government better than the one under which this country operates today?"

Mr. CONTIE. "No, sir, I have not unless you want me to say I wish the Democratic and Republican parties would get along better".

Mr. BYRD. "You really believe that?"

Mr. CONTIE. "Yes sir".

Mr. BYRD. "That is your statement under oath?"

Mr. CONTIE. "That is right".

Mr. BYRD. "Have you ever attended a Communist party meeting?"

Mr. CONTIE. "No, sir, I have not.

Mr. BYRD. "And if witnesses said you did, they would be lying?"

Mr. CONTIE. "Without the facts presented to me, I must say that they are mistaken. If they then continue, then I might start using the term ‘lying', and as far as I know, I was never at a Communist meeting".

Mr. BYRD. "Could it happen that you have been?"

Mr. CONTIE. "No, sir, it could not or would be very unlikely".

Mr. BYRD. "Would know if you were at a Communist party meeting?"

Mr. CONTIE. "Not necessarily. But I don't attend that type of meetings as a whole anyway".

Mr. BYRD. "Were you ever at any meeting about which you have doubt now that it might have been a Communist meeting?"

Mr. CONTIE. "That is why I would like a definition of what you mean by communism, and also what you would call a Communist party meeting. As you know, one may go to a Baptist church and not be a Baptist."

Mr. BYRD. "I did not ask you that. I asked you whether or not you ever attended a Communist party meeting. I did not say if you were a Communist party member attending a Communist party meeting. So your analogy about a Baptist does not hold water. The only question now is: ‘Have you ever attended a Communist party meeting.'"

Mr. CONTIE. "As far as I know, no. That is the best I can say".

Mr. BYRD. "Were there any meetings you now think might have been Communist party meetings?

Mr. CONTIE. "No, sir, there are none. As I said, I don't attend meetings like that".

Mr. BYRD. "Were you ever a believer in socialism?"

Mr. CONTIE. "Well, sir, I would say no unless you think my mother telling me to share with my sister rises to it. But again, I would like a definition of what you mean by socialism and until I understand what you are asking or what it actually means, I couldn't tell you. So I would say no".

Mr. BYRD. "You would say no?"

Mr. CONTIE. "Yes, sir, I would say no".

Mr. BYRD. "You want to tell us you have never been a believer in anything except our form of government?"

Mr. CONTIE. "As far as government goes, I have not".

Mr. BYRD. "What do you mean, as far as government goes?"

Mr. CONTIE. "I mean to answer to your question".

Mr. BYRD. "Do you have some reservation about it?"

Mr. CONTIE. "No, I have not. As with your socialism and communism questions, I would also say I have no interest in studying or reading up on it. I took the classes in school because I had to. I was a Cub Scout and Boy Scout. I went to church. But again sir, I'm not interested in any way shape or form with the political system. I am interested in computer systems and that realm of technology. So now I must ask what the hell is this line of questioning about?"

Mr. BYRD. "Please understand we ask the questions..."

Mr. CONTIE. "Bite me."

Mr. GOLDWATER. "That's enough. Now Mr. Contie, the reason we are questioning you on this topic is you worked for a man that was giving US technology to both the East German GRD and Russian KGB to name a few. And now it seems that you didn't receive a single dime for your effort. If it wasn't for money, then was your motive political? And now you tell us that you never swayed in your political upbringing?"

Mr. CONTIE. "Sir, during the complete time of this operation, my moral compass never swayed if I understand your meaning. I was asked by Günter Diersbach to look into the background of Peter Gopal and that I did. However, one thing led to another... and then another. It just snowballed. Please understand, I believe to this day, he was nothing but an international salesman, selling misappropriated technology to anyone in the world that would that had money and would be interested. We never discussed political philosophy unless you mean did we bitch at Carter's failure in the hostage situation or Reagan's background as California's Governor. Here sir, I bitched equally at both and voted for Reagan because of Carter's weakness in handling the hostage situation".

Mr. GOLDWATER. "Well, then do you think Gopal's selling this technology was un-American?"

Mr. CONTIE. "No sir. It is being done every day in America by the major US companies and specifically by the two Silicon Valley companies in question. So why not him or Silicon Systems International? As for the chip technology that he had access to, what Gopal had access to was not on the US restricted trade list. I think you use the term CodeCom. As for the digital watch and calculator chip technology, this was done by reverse engineering methods which I have been informed by many as to be fully legal."

Mr. GOLDWATER. "Who would the names be on these if I may. The people's names?"

Mr. CONTIE. "George Brackonitz, General Counsel NSC; Roger Conroy, General Counsel Intel; Dan Asumi, President, Maruman; Judge Peter Stone, Santa Clara Superior Court to name just a few."

Mr. GOLDWATER. "What about this memory chip... what they call a 256K Ram Memory chip."

Mr. CONTIE. "This was a chip that was brought to Maruman by Fujitsu Semiconductor of Japan for Maruman to manufacture for sales in the US market".

Mr. GOLDWATER. "Then this was Japanese technology in the first place not US technology".

Mr. CONTIE. "Correct. And do these US laws extend into another foreign country now?"

Mr. GOLDWATER. "Mr. Contie, please! Now, what about this other memory chip... what they call 1K by 4 Ram Memory chip".

Mr. CONTIE. "Yes sir. We called it the 2114 chip. I think Intel originally created it. Then Maruman hired an Intel engineer and me to design a new version of it for Maruman, which we did".

Mr. GOLDWATER. "But Gopal said that it was a copy of Intel's?"

Mr. CONTIE. "No sir, it was much worse than that. He stated that it was made from Intel propriety information and then showed everyone photographic enlargements of the Intel tooling for that chip with the Intel logo on it. Again, we were unaware of this at that time. So in the end, it turned out that he was just bull shitting or conning everyone".

Mr. GOLDWATER. "But selling this overseas would be against the best interests of the US?"

Mr. CONTIE. "Sir. We designed this chip for Maruman, a US company. What the President of Maruman does with it is up to him. If he wants to swap it for other chips, then he has the right to do this. It is after all Maruman property. If this is done in Europe, Japan, or any of the Pacific Rim countries, so be it. It's a Maruman management decision only".

Mr. BYRD. "Ok, then what about this Micro Processor chip?"

Mr. CONTIE. "Again Sir, this chip is call the ‘8080a' and it was originally designed by Intel. NSC then said that they copied it. But at the same time, Intel introduced a new chip called the 8088 chip that IBM used in their new personnel computer. Intel also has introduced the 8086, 80186, and the 80286 microprocessor chips since then. So in our industry, the 8080a chip is now considered obsolete, has no value, and to be frank, even IBM's current design of the PC uses the 8088 chip and is obsolete as well. The consumer wants faster and more powerful chips to use for their needs".

Mr. BYRD. "But the consumer will only use it for saving recipes or balancing their check books?"

Mr. CONTIE. "Ah... what? No Sir. This is where there is a generation gap between you, I mean your generation, and mine, sir. I went to school to learn programming of computers. I was taught on a very large IBM mainframe computer. However, when I went to work at let's say Hughes Aircraft, I worked with DEC mini computers. Now sir, I have an engineering workstation, ah PC at home that I use for my computing needs. On all three generations of computers that I have mentioned, I have been using the programming languages Fortran, Basic and now C. In short, I don't care what type of hardware the computer it is, I use a specific software application or language to do something I need done".

Mr. BYRD. "But IBM computers are real ones; the others are just toys to do things like video games".

Mr. CONTIE. "Sir, I saw my first computer in 1963, it was at Lockheed Systems in Burbank, CA. That generation of programmer was called a 'Scientists', had PhDs, and wore white lab coats with plastic pocket protectors. Some even wore protective goggles as they stood in line for hours to load their stack of punch cards into the computer. They would then stand in line to retrieve their answers on a large line printer. Today, in 1982, we use a pocket calculator that is smaller than those plastic pocket protectors and most kids in Junior High School do the same level of calculations as those PhD scientists were doing then".

Mr. BYRD. "But those IBM mainframe computers were much more powerful than these personnel computers that seem to be the rage right now".

Mr. CONTIE. "Sir when you look at a computer, you still see a god. Something that is magical doing unknown calculations for someone. When I look at a computer, I see it as a tool that replaced the slide rule and typewriter. It's something that speeds up my work. I don't see this computer as a god, I now see this as a personal tool that I can use for whatever I want it to do. However, I must also say that this looseness in thinking led to my mistake in thinking that I can use a company's computer for my own personal use or personal project. But of course this is a security issue not a computing issue".

Mr. GOLDWATER. "Do you think many of your generation think the same?"

Mr. CONTIE. "Yes sir I do. Just look at the way they dressed when they work with computers. Your generation sir wore lab coats covering up long sleeved, white shirts and ties. Now it's pullover and Dockers".

Mr. GOLDWATER. "Well then, do you think there is a security risk in this new technology?"

Mr. CONTIE. "It's not in the new technology sir. That can be locked down. It's the casual attitude toward the use of these personal computers by my generation and their definition of intellectual property vs. intellectual knowledge and how it is applied to the real National security issues."

Mr. BYRD. "Mr. Contie. Do you use drugs?"

Mr. CONTIE. "What? No sir I do not".

Mr. BYRD. "Well most of your generation does. Look at the problems we have at the college level today. Do you think this lax attitude is now in your generation's work place?"

Mr. CONTIE. "Sir, if you would have asked me that question three years ago, I would said no and then argued with you about it using a civil rights argument. It also must be said that your generation had drug problems in the work place too. However, this incident we will be talking about soon I hope has changed my thinking on this topic. I watched with my own eyes at the breakdown of both DOD and corporate security because of employee drug use. So no sir, I'm not a security expert and will never pass myself off as one, but the people that I have been dealing with were heavy users of pot, alcohol and cocaine. They paid for these drugs using their employers' intellectual property or your National Secret documents".

Mr. GOLDWATER. "And it was because of your dealings with these people that you came across this Directorate T cell?"

Mr. CONTIE. "Sir, I don't really know what the formal description is for it, but yes sir, these people were swapping DOD Secret and Industrial Information for the drugs. I even witnessed drug money being funneled into the local elections".

Mr. GOLDWATER. "Ok. Ok. Then let's start... Could you start at the beginning and describe how this all started and how you came across these people in the first place?"

Mr. CONTIE. "Yes sir... I'll start with a short background on the drug side's main players and how we got to know each other. I'll use this as reference points that ties together some of other minor events that just seemed to snowball into the major events that you should be more interested in. I hope this will give you a better reference or understanding of what transpired and the relationships I had with each of the players."




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